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Episode 20: Building Trust Through Podcasting with Sheryl Plouffe

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Uncover the strategies, techniques, and authentic approaches to connect with your audience on a deeper level. Sheryl shares her experiences and expert insights, providing a roadmap for creating episodes that resonate and foster lasting relationships. Whether you’re a seasoned podcaster or just starting, this episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to elevate their trust-building game through the power of podcasting.


Kerry: Thank you for being here.

Sheryl: Great to be here, Kerry!

Kerry: I’m excited to have a chance to talk with our very first guest. And this is Sheryl Plouffe. She is an ICONMAKER as you can see on your screen, but there’s a ton of stuff that she dabbles in. And there are some solid businesses that have to do with sort of what we’re doing here today, which is podcasting. I will stop talking to Sheryl and give you an opportunity to introduce yourself to the audience.

Sheryl: I will do that. Thank you, Kerry, for having me on your very first show. so honored to be your first guest. My name is  Sheryl Plouffe. I am the co-founder of an ICONMAKER joint venture along with my two business partners, Tom Matson and Danella Burnett. And we are the creators of the seven figure podcaster program. So we have joined forces to help entrepreneurs to scale their business with a business podcast. And we help them do that, to seven figure levels and beyond. We’re really excited about the prospect of working with business coaches, consultants, entrepreneurs who are really in the space of wanting to make an impact through their work. 

And so that’s one of the tenants of what we feel is important in the work that we do is we’re looking for people that are really wanting to make an impact through their work and also make money at the same time. And that those two things can go together. The idea of more time, more profit, more life is really important to us. 

So that’s really where we come from and who I am. I was a former TV broadcaster. And we have that in common. Both of us spent, I think, over 20 years in that industry. And so we have that in common. I was a news manager at Palomar X media, the Weather Network for several years. And I spent actually 17 years there on national television here in Canada. Oh my gosh,

Kerry: Yeah, I feel like I’m still in a little bit of recovery from the TV news industry.

Sheryl:It takes a while to get Yeah, it takes a while to get over that.

Kerry:Yeah, it does. And, and but I’m glad that I am and I’m sure you are as well, launching your own thing it has a different it has a very different feel. And I guess what I mean by that is when I won’t. I won’t talk about this for too long. But in the news industry, there’s always somebody else, much like an employee, I guess in any corporation who’s sort of dictating your future, you know, and sometimes as you know, in the news industry, it is very subjective as to what makes a good anchor or Reporter You know, we know good interviewing, we know good presence on TV, we know understanding current events, and you know what is going on in your community. But let’s be honest, sometimes there’s like the news director or the boss or the CEO doesn’t want a blonde or doesn’t want a brunette or doesn’t want you know, we have too many people who have similar last names. That was one that was thrown at me one time and so that entrepreneur, area and arena as scary as it can be, I feel a sense of like, I’m finally in charge of my destiny. Do you feel that way too?

Sheryl: Well, that was one of the reasons why I started my business in 2017 and left that industry to start my own company because I had the same feeling I really wanted to be in control of my own destiny and I wanted to be in control of my calendar, and how much vacation I could take and when I could take it and and it’s not just to broadcasting it’s to the employee world, right. It’s like when you’re an employee you only have so much control over those things. 

And so that was one of the driving factors for me to Kerry. It was also the fact that I had been at the Weather Network for 17 years. But I didn’t live near where I worked. And so I was commuting two hours plus per day on good days. I live in Canada. And as you can imagine, the winters are rough. And so there were times when it would take me two and a half hours, one just to get home. Yeah, right. And so that’s wearing on you after 17 years. And so that was also one of the drivers for me, I just didn’t want to spend that much more time, you know, time in the car. 

And so there were a lot of different factors that came to be but also my heart, I felt like there was an inner calling, or knowing inside of myself that I was meant to step into that arena, as scary as it may be. But that’s what really transpired for me.

Kerry: So I’m gonna ask you about podcasting in just a moment. But how did you sort of launch your business and you have a really strong following on YouTube? How is it that you went about crafting or laying the foundation for what is there now what what you’ve manifested thus far?

Sheryl: I think, especially for people who are in broadcasting, or any industry, I mean, you really want to look at what is it that I’m best known for? What am I great at? What do I have expertise at or insight or knowledge or wisdom experience around. And so it made perfect sense for me when I started in 2017, to do video marketing. 

And that’s really what I focused on. Admittedly, though, Kerry, in the first few years, I mean, I was, I didn’t really know exactly what I was doing. I know I was doing video marketing, but I tried a lot of different things. I went down the agency route, you know, and did sort of agency model type things. And then I would do one on one services. And then I would do group coaching, and I did all of these different things, still under the premise of video marketing, and tried a lot of things. And so I think, for me, it was really taking my existing experience and translating that into an entrepreneurial endeavor. So

Kerry: What was it about and I did the same thing, there have been so many iterations of my business and my services and what I offer and even how I offer them since I started, which was in 2019, I guess now. And and, and it’s still growing, and it’s still changing. And I imagine that’s how it will be from here until the time I decide to hang up my coat and start to take it easy. 

But what was it that brought you to podcasting, right around the time that I started my business, I think is really when it began to explode. And maybe that’s partly because, excuse me, we were in lockdown with the pandemic, we had a little more time, we were listening to things we were trying to better ourselves and better our businesses and learn new things. But what was it that drove you in that direction?

Sheryl: It actually goes back to what I said earlier about commuting, I was spending so much time in the car, traveling back and forth to work and for the longest time and for many, many years, I would listen to news radio, because I’m in the broadcasting industry. Makes sense. So you want to be up on current events, as you mentioned. So I would listen to it. However, as we both know, those things run in cycles. And so what I would do is I would be driving back and forth. But I’d hear the same thing over and over. It was a cyclical news cycle that I was hearing over and over. 

And around 2013 was when I really started to work on myself in terms of personal development. And I started listening to audiobooks and at that time, CDs and different things that were helping to feed my brain and learn about personal development. And I realized that I needed to turn off the news radio and turn on audiobooks. 

And I did that more and more and more to the point where I started looking at podcasts and listening to podcasts. And so some of them became my, you know, podcasting has been around for a long time, but I was listening to podcasts, and it was feeding my soul. It was feeding my brain and I felt like I was learning and I just really got interested in it. 

And then I think it was around 2017 probably around the time I started my company that I thought I’m going to try. I want to have a podcast so why can’t I of course I can. I can do this. But I did it under the premise of what most people do with podcasts. 

And thinking that I was going to have to build an audience to make this profitable to make money at it to make it feed into my business. I’d have to grow an audience. The first actually, I think two times that I did the podcasting that way, I really faded out very quickly because I realized it was so much post production and I was doing it all the wrong way. 

And then fast forward into the pandemic. And that’s when I decided to give it another try but this time I tried it with a different goal in mind with a different intent. And that’s what changed when I realized that I could start a podcast, but I’m going to use it as a vehicle to build high trust relationships with others. Instead of being focused on I gotta build an audience, and I have to be out there hustling. 

And that’s when everything changed for me. But to answer your question, podcasting came about as I became a fan of podcasting for my own personal development, and then later decided to give it a try on my own.

Kerry: So the shift happened when you went from focusing it sounds like strictly on monetizing it and making money from it right out of the gate to using it as a way to build trust to build credibility, establish relationships, maybe offer a platform to someone you’re interested in working with, or you have a common bond with. 

Does this pocket thing work for everybody? I mean, assuming they have the basics, they can host a good interview, and there is a compelling presence, perhaps can it work for everyone? Regardless of perhaps the size of the business that you’re helming? Or the type of personal brand that you want to grow? Or where you are in your entrepreneurial journey? Is it something that everybody can benefit from?

Sheryl: I believe that with our strategy, it can work for everyone. So long as you’re someone who enjoys the process and enjoys talking to people, so long as you can Kerry in a conversation that you can ask questions, which most business owners can, most business owners understand the value of getting out there and speaking to other people. So as long as you can Kerry on a conversation, then yes, you can benefit from podcasting under this model.

Kerry: So tell me, tell me a little bit about how you use podcasting. And one of the things that you and I have talked about previous to this episode is the ascension model, which is a structure of business. And frankly, when you first mentioned it, I had to look it up because I had no idea what it was. 

And then I said, I might be doing my marketing wrong. I’m creating, I think, what is the ascension model? Talk a little bit about that, why it doesn’t work to sell some of those high ticket programs, and then how you factor podcasting into your marketing, even if it isn’t specifically in, you know, some sort of complicated funnel?

Sheryl: Well, let me start by addressing the idea that the high ticket program buyer is not there looking for solutions. And high ticket buyers are looking for solutions, through products, services, people programs that aren’t making them, subscribe to a gauntlet of PDF downloads, and a gauntlet of Downloadables and calls and you know, videos and trainings and having to go through all of these different things that the ascension model essentially prefer provides. 

So the ascension model is the idea that a person would come in at a very low level investment, let’s just say, you know, a $7 tripwire and then that leads to a $47, you know, class and then it goes to a $97 thing, and then it goes to a course, seven do, right, so get started here, and you have to ascend the customer up through all these different stages to get to the ultimate thing, which is, I want to sell them my high ticket thing. Right, right. So now this is obviously only applicable to people who have high ticket things.

Kerry: And let me just jump in there, we’re talking something that’s perhaps over $10,000 in the context of this model, right.

Sheryl: And people have different opinions about what high ticket is, in our world, we would consider anything over $10,000 to be high ticket, because you’re starting to talk about money that requires, you know, maybe some thought maybe you have a business partner, you’re going to want to pass that by that business partner, right, it’s becoming a little bit more substantial. 

And so, but the ascension model is this idea that you start here, then you ascend them up into the place that you want them to go. We don’t believe that the ascension model is the right model for those who are selling high ticket or whose goal it is to ultimately sell high ticket. 

And you can imagine that with a high ticket offer or program, it’s a obviously much more lucrative place to be to run your business because most of the people we work with, with coaches and consultants and entrepreneurs, one of the biggest problems they have is inconsistent cash flow, because they’re spending so much time building funnels, trying to ascend people up this long complicated gauntlet of things that they need to do in order to get to the final thing that they want, right or that can serve them and so you’re spending a lot of money on tools and SaaS products and people and coaches and ideas and you know, all the all the things you have to pay for in order to get so when you get to the end result you’re like you’re not profitable and then you are questioning Well, how does this all work?

Kerry: Yeah, well, I’ve made that mistake to the tune of 10s of 1000s of dollars only to realize that it’s structured incorrectly. And I think and let me ask you, as it relates to that is the reason that this model doesn’t work for higher ticket items is because people who are looking for a solution to a problem they know that they have, they don’t want to sort of trudge through this long, complicated marketing funnel, they want to figure out what the solution is, and then think about it, and make the purchase and get things rolling. 

Sheryl: Exactly right? That’s exactly right. Kerry, it’s understanding the psychology of the person who is a solution seeker rather than an information seeker. Nicholas Kuzmich was actually a Sheryl at this strategic alliance summit last week that my partner Tom hosted. And he talked about this so eloquently. 

And he also believes in the same principle, which is that, you know, your solution seekers, your high ticket buyers don’t want to go through every download and having to run through all these different things in order to get to the solution that they want. So that’s why it doesn’t really fit that model. 

Now, that’s not to say that the ascension model doesn’t have a time and a place for people who are not selling high ticket programs and offers and work. But we typically recommend for coaches, consultants, entrepreneurs, people that want to build a scalable business that they should be starting with a high ticket in the first place, right? You need to because you need cash flow, your business is only going to be able to grow and flourish if you have enough margin, and profit and cash flow to be able to support the growth of the company. Right.

Kerry: So how does the podcasting then fit into the model, the business model that that you follow, it’s not directly a part of a marketing funnel, or a funnel, maybe, perhaps at all, but it is part of how you bring awareness and how you build trust and how you establish visibility. So where does it fit in? It

Sheryl: Fits in at the point where you have established your high ticket program, your high ticket offer, you have a mechanism by which to sell that thing that you do or to at least get people to apply because we believe in the application model, not everyone who raises their hands should be in your program, you should be screening and qualifying people who are perfect for your program. So you have your offer, you have your mechanism by which to sell it, we believe in the workshop model. 

And then you start moving into podcasts and summit at least in our model, that’s when you’re using a podcast in particular, to grow and to scale that. And so the premise of it is that you’re using your podcast to accomplish the three P’s, we call it the three P’s of podcast monetization.  

The first one is that you’re using it through the lens of patrons, meaning having a podcast of your own that you’re hosting, so that you can give a platform to maybe your clients, having your clients on your show who can speak to the results that you’ve helped them achieve in your program. Or it could be vendors that you’ve worked with, or other people who are already part of your community, that you can give them a platform, you can edify them. And you can also use that as a means to demonstrate what it is you do without you being the person saying, Hey, look at me. I’m amazing. 

Other people are saying it. And so patrons are one way to use your podcast. And to reinforce that. The second one is partners, and partners and compasses, partnerships of all just all descriptions. It could be joint venture relationships, affiliate relationships, promotion partners, referral partnerships, any number of partnerships that are out there, and you’re using your podcast to forge those relationships with people rather than coming down with a cold. 

Maybe there’s someone who you’d love to partner with, and you see them on LinkedIn, but they don’t know who you are, they don’t know you and you don’t know them. When you send them a cold message right out of the blue, you’re likely to get a response, but you’re more likely not to get a response. 

Whereas if you use your podcast as a means of saying, Hey, I’m really interested in what you do, or I love this philanthropic endeavor you’re involved with or whatever your angle might be, to be able to invite them onto your show. And then now you have you’re starting to build a relationship. Sure, right through the podcast. 

And then the third P is platforms. If there’s someone, if there’s a show that you would love to be on, and again, they don’t know you, you don’t know them, you could start by offering an opportunity for them to be on your show. Now that’s not a gig that’s not going to guarantee that they’re going to invite you onto their show. But it’s more likely to happen if you’ve forged a relationship.

And now that person says that there’s reciprocity that’s building in there, they’re more likely to say, I really enjoyed this was great. You know, I’d like you to come on my show, in fact, Kerry, just to give you in your audience an idea of how this is going to work in the context of you and me right now, as soon as we’re done here, I’m probably going to invite you to be on ICONMAKER podcast. 

Why wouldn’t I do that? I do. It’s to show how that works in real life. But it’s really these three P’s of podcast monetization. And we encourage people to think about and look at your podcast as a way to leverage those types of high trust relationships through those three P’s.

Kerry : Yeah, I think sometimes people think of a podcast as something, you know, similar to the way that you perhaps thought about it, when you first started as a way to, you know, build an audience which it can be, but to monetize and make money right out of the gate. 

And if they think of themselves, perhaps, and it’s just a little sort of mindset shift, if you think of yourself as a media hub, somebody who can offer a platform to somebody else, but without all of the other gatekeepers that are usually around, you know, a traditional media opportunity, or a radio interview, et cetera, you think of yourself as a media platform, and it shifts the way that you think about what your end goal is, or perhaps how you want to pursue it and how you want to get there. Agreed,

Sheryl: agreed. I think every business owner would benefit from thinking of their platforms as mini media companies, or this portion of what they do as a mini media company.

Kerry : Absolutely. So let me ask you this. And I know this is something that you help your clients with, but for somebody who is listening, and and maybe doesn’t have the budget right now to work with you, what are some of the things that they need to do to get started, if they’re considering starting a podcast, growing a show, etc.

Sheryl: I think the place to start is to conceptualize the show through the lens of what I just described, you know, and that could be planning out who are the partners that I want to be partnered with. One of the great exercises that my partner Tom loves to do with our masterminds or events is he calls this the dream 100 right exercise. 

And the idea is that you get together in breakout rooms and you put out there a person that I would love to know or meet who could unlock a lot of opportunities for me in my business. It’s a great exercise, because it forces you to think about people who you might not know now, but you’d be surprised at how it’s often maybe one or two levels of separation between you and another person, that that you don’t know that the person in your breakout room, for example, knows them. 

And so it’s this exercise of Who do I want to know, who do I need to meet? And so maybe one of the first places to start would be making that list, making that list of who are the people? What are the platforms?

 I want to be on? Who are the partners I want to have on board with me whether and that’s both I can promote from them, or they can promote for me whatever that relationship might look like? And then who are the clients or the patrons that I would love to work with? Right? And so it’s just sitting down and taking account of and making a list of who those people are? That’s a great starting point.

Kerry: Do you see people making similar or repeated mistakes, and, you know, this client, this client, this client, or this person is considering a podcast and so are these other four and consistently, this is an error they make when they’re first beginning this process.

Sheryl : I think there are several errors, but I think overarching, the the thing that I see the most is people that are too deep in the post production and spending a lot of their own time. They’re not outsourcing it, they themselves are doing it themselves. 

And they’re at three o’clock in the morning, and they’re editing a video or things of that nature. I think it’s a really about the post production side of it, you want to make sure that you understand the value of your time, your time is likely more valuable to the growing of your business and to forging these high trust relationships and putting your time and effort there than it is on you sitting there and laying down a big background on an edit at three o’clock in the morning. 

Right, right. So it’s just understanding the value of your time and then being willing to outsource that to other people. So I think it has to do with post production. That’s probably one of the biggest mistakes that I see. 

And listen, the truth is that in the beginning that might not be the reality. That’s why we actually urge people to create a high ticket program as fast as possible and fill a founders circle so that you have some money. 

ow you have some cash flow to be able to hire someone. And it doesn’t have to be expensive, you can hire someone hourly or on a retainer of my editor happens to be on a retainer. But you can hire somebody, fairly affordably, to take that burden away from you.

Kerry: Absolutely. And we have a couple of questions in the comments. And so then that has to do with exactly what you’re talking about. Alec, I see your questions there, I will answer them, we will get to them, we’re going to add them in at the end of the live stream. So keep your questions and your comments coming. 

I see them and we will answer them. In terms of and I want to take a little bit of a turn here now  

Sheryl, and perhaps, perhaps you’ve worked podcasting into the answer to this next question. But I’m curious about how you get from, you know, six figures, to seven figures, because a lot of times people think, you know, if we are, if we are doing this, and we’ve got, you know, we’ve managed to hit whatever the goal is, you know, $500,000, doing the same thing will get us over that 1 million mark. 

And that’s usually not the case. So what do you have to do? How do you have to change your thinking? And does it change your strategy for guests on your podcast for the way that you’re putting that content out there, etc?

Sheryl:  Well, how you have to change your thinking, first is that what gets you to six figures is not the same thing that gets you to seven and beyond. Yeah, what gets you to six figures is having an offer. And maybe it’s not a high ticket offer to start. Maybe you don’t work with someone who can help you do that, right? 

Maybe you create something to the best of your ability, that’s something that still has a decent margin, though, right? You don’t want to be creating your first product ever, at the lowest price point ever available. Because that’s what I believe that’s a mistake, because you’re training people to think that you’re not premium, and that you’re a low ticket to begin with. 

So let’s just say for example, to get to six figures, you are somebody who does, well, let’s just say video marketing as an example. You could have a service that you offer someone and you create videos for them. And maybe you have a team of one or two people that can help you to deal with the volume. 

So you’re not reaching your you know, you’re not capped, but it might be a monthly recurring, you know, service that you offer for $2,000. Right? How many clients do you need at that rate to get to $100,000? Not that many. Right, right for? Right. So getting that requires just having an offer, having a service, doing probably a lot of customization, probably a lot of one to one, probably not scaled in any way, probably not a lot of coaching, it’s a service. And you can easily get to six figures, that’s hustling, you’re gonna have to hustle, you’re gonna have to go and find clients, it’s going to be word of mouth, you’re going to maybe do some speaking, etc. 

But that’s not really difficult to reach. Right? Okay. But when you want to go to seven figures, your thinking has to change, because now you have to think about and this is only if you still want to have a life? Sure. If you want to have a life, then you have to think of it this way: how am I going to scale this? And is this the model that’s going to take me to that figure? 

Got it, because there are a lot of things done for you, a lot of customization, a lot of you require a lot of time, that’s not a scalable model. So you might be able to take that thing and say, Okay, how does this model need to change, then, in order for me to scale this up to seven figures, I also going to have to have help, you know, we’ll have to have we call them systems champions in our world, right? Um, you have to have systems in place, you have to have systems champions, you know, you have to have a way to scale this up, you also need support around you. 

We don’t believe that getting to seven figures is something that you do alone, right? From a mindset perspective, because you will have ups and downs and you need people there who’ve been down that road who can guide you to help us really expedite that exponentially and expedite that result. At

Kerry: At the end of the day, let’s bring this back around to the sort of podcasting and how you can fully leverage it as a podcast, something that can help you get from a six figure business to a seven figure business. Yes.

Sheryl: And the thing that I love about podcasting and why we have focused a lot on podcasting is one of the mechanisms that we focus on is because there is no other medium in my opinion that’s as intimate as podcasting. 

Right that allows you to dig in for an extended period of time when that’d be 15 minutes, 20 minutes, 30 minutes 45 Whatever you deem to be the right length of podcasts for your own self, but nothing else builds high trust relationship, while also creating content will also building your authority, while also making you visible while also demonstrating your expertise and podcasting, in my view, and being able to use that then as a jumping off point for other forms of content. 

You can create clips you can do with AI. Now, you can create all your show notes, and you can have blog posts, and you can have all these wonderful things that stem from your podcast episode. So that’s why I love podcasting, and is because of the ability to be able to do other things with it, and also build that high trust relationship, which is the foundation of our strategy. Absolutely,

Kerry: I would agree with you when I am talking to clients about creating video and content creation and using it for marketing and sales content, one of the things that I hear most often is it’s so time consuming. And one of the easiest ways to knock out daily content for a month is to have a podcast, because you take one podcast, and you can repurpose it in a million different ways. 

For example, this live stream, I will repurpose into a recorded audio podcast that will then go up on you know, Spotify and I heart and iTunes and, and all of the other podcast platforms, and then we’ll take the questions and we’ll use them to create, you know, additional inspiration for future episodes. And I’m going to ask some of the audience to go ahead and put in their sort of aha moments, because then we’ll use those as testimonials for the program, there’s so much that can be accomplished. And even just to have our podcast, it’s a great way to sort of batch produce without really batch producing.

Sheryl : Yeah, and this idea that you have, I look at it this way as macro content, and then micro. So your macro could be your podcast, as you’re saying your main modality of capturing the content. And then you can create micro content from that through a repurposing strategy. So long as you’re thinking through the strategy of how you want to utilize your podcast, you can monetize from it. And it’s not going to be through audience building only. 

That’s the one of the biggest things that people think they know, I’m going to start a podcast because I see other people who are, you know, have very, and there are people who have very popular podcast, but that’s such a small, small percentage of people who ever reach that level for most coaches, consultants, entrepreneurs who want to leverage a podcast for business, you’re not going to reach those levels of downloads and audience and certainly not going to be in the first few years. 

And so you have to have a better strategy for leveraging your podcast as you continue to do it. And it needs to be fun. Yeah, Nothing is more frustrating than producing a podcast that you know that not many people are listening to and you don’t have any way of monetizing it. Right. That’s why people’s pods fade.

Kerry: Yeah, and you’re not enjoying the process. Now you’re not? Yeah. So don’t go into it expecting to be the next Joe Rogan right out of the gate. So you have to temper your expectations. And really figure out what leveraging that platform and that content means to you. It’s not necessarily signing a nine figure deal with Spotify.

Sheryl: Somebody needs to be the next Joe Rogan. Yeah, admittedly, right? It’s like sports, somebody needs to make it to the NHL, somebody will make it to the NHL. But for most people, for most people, I don’t want entrepreneurs to be going into podcasting thinking I’m going to become the next Joe Rogan and then be disappointed if it doesn’t happen. Or it takes a long to happen because their focus is on the audience being focused on building high trust relationships that never goes out of style in business.

Kerry: Right? Very good. He showed me a couple of questions in the comments that I want to get to. And I thank the audience for being patient and waiting for us to bring these up. Here’s a question from Alec, it’s up on the screen. And share I’ll direct this to you as a question to both of us but more importantly to you. Is your business currently geared toward consultants, service providers? Or is it to companies and can you make a viable living targeted at consultants and service providers?

Sheryl: Do you want me to go first? Yep. Well, in our world, it’s really more consultants, entrepreneurs, coaches, service providers as part of that as well. People who have are either working solo or working with a small team at the moment. Can we help companies? Yes, we can. But I would say predominantly we’re more about helping individual people to build sustainable seven figure plus businesses. Got

Kerry: Although there are several iterations of my business, what I’m focusing on right now is companies, but executives and teams within companies media training, creating presence for a more engaged workforce, or for video sales or virtual sales calls with prospects and clients. And of course, for media opportunities, traditional media opportunities as well. 

And what I have found that while that is applicable to a consultant or a service provider or a smaller business owner, executives and higher level positions, and sales teams certainly have a need for this that is, at this stage anyway, more urgent for them, they recognize that there’s a problem doesn’t take quite as much education to bring them to the solution. And they’re usually ready to purchase usually, because they have the money and they’ve already made a deal. concerted effort to find whatever the solution is going to be. Yeah, I sometimes

Sheryl: Kerry we have, we’ll have people who are consultants to companies, right, so we’ll help the consultant to build their business in such a way to serve the companies or

Kerry: The company. Yeah. Let me ask the next question. And you touched on this a little bit earlier in the program, which was concerning some of the ways that we can use AI to edit and, and help with post production. Alec has another question about AI. People often say AI won’t replace you, but someone using AI will. And so his question, and I’ll ask this to you, because I’m not using a ton of AI right now. And you’re my clients? To what extent are you using AI? Are you using AI?

Sheryl: Yeah. And then is it time to master AI? You know, I have read, I’ve been reading a little bit about technological singularity lately, which is this idea that some people are saying that by 2031, that AI will replace you know, that humans will no longer be in control of AI? I don’t know if that’s true. But what I would say is that we have to learn how to live with it. And I don’t think I think it’s just as good as the operator. 

Right? I mean, you have to know what to put into a chat GPT to know, to be able to give it proper prompts so that you get a good result. How we’re utilizing it is that there’s a program that I really love called cast magic. Oh, yeah. And, cast magic is magic. It really blows my mind. But you’re able to take a YouTube video or any other source of say, an audio podcast, or a YouTube video and cast magic, well, then through the magic of AI, it’s going to take that thing and it’s going to create a bunch of different kinds of content from it. 

You know, it will, it will do timestamps, it will do a summary, it will do notes, it will do suggested titles, it will you know, all these different things. And so that’s one example of AI, a lot of the tools now that we know and love, like Canva, as an example, or any entrepreneurs using Canva AI are now baked into Canva. 

Right, right. So there’s a lot that it’s doing. I don’t profess to be an AI expert by any means, but I’m very interested in it. I play with it a lot. I’m using mid journey and playing with chat GPT. And we can’t in Canada get barred yet. So I can’t be barred by Google. But I love the concept of it. And I’m very pro AI. 

Kerry:  All right, another Alec I love all your questions. Thank you for dropping them in the comments. Halak has another question, does premium value services come with trust? And does trust come with social channel presence?

Sheryl: So I think trust mean, definitely trust needs to be a part of the equation if you’re trying to, or you’re trying to enroll someone into a premium or high ticket program or offer of your own like, no one who doesn’t trust you is going to want to work with you for an extended period of time. So I think trust is an important equation there. 

Does trust calm with social channel presence, to some degree, but I feel like social media and social channel presence has changed so much over the last many years, that it’s more about being seen and visible and just kind of like in people’s consciousness and kind of being there and showing up. 

There’s always going to be a level of trust in business no matter what, in what capacity. So I think that’s, you know, table stakes, as far as I’m concerned. But, I think that social media has changed. It’s really the trust is not built on social media, per se. I think trust is built through conversation apps. That’s really when you’re building trust, it’s through actually talking to people. 

A lot of entrepreneurs are averse to that, like they don’t talk to enough people. They just don’t pick up the phone. They don’t book calls. They don’t just get on and chat. Kerry, you and I chatted, I think it was in the spring, I want to say it was like March or May, somewhere in there. What did we do? We just got on a call and said, What are you up to?

Kerry: Hey, how’s it going?

Sheryl: What are you working on? What are you working on? And so you just never know when, where and how those conversations will transpire into the next step. Absent, so appreciate you inviting me onto your show, as a result of likely having met me some many months ago.

Kerry: Yeah. And knowing that you know what you’re doing. And I would say this to add on to that trust element there. You’re right. It’s not built through a post on Instagram, those things do keep you top of mind, and they can provide value, which demonstrates credibility. But really, it’s not those micro clips that demonstrate credibility or build trust, it’s longer conversations. And podcasting is a great way to have a longer conversation. It’s that longer form. Even if you can’t be in the same room together, you know, one on one, it’s creating an opportunity for a longer form, conversation that builds a deeper connection and does help establish trust. Would you agree with that?

Sheryl: I totally agree. Yeah, yeah, I think it’s really more entrepreneurs and coaches and consultants would benefit from talking to more people, privately, not not, I’m not talking necessarily about having a not the podcast part of it, just getting on a call, and saying, Hey, what are you up to? What are you working on? How can I support you? How can I serve you? Who do you need to meet? 

What introduction do I need to make for you? Who are you looking to meet these days? How can I serve you this idea of service being service minded? And being there to say, Hey, I’d love to help, maybe I can make the introduction? Did you know we’re doing this cool thing that could serve your community? So it’s this idea of having to talk to more people. What most people Kerry you’re doing is sitting there building funnels? Exactly. They’re sitting there building the funnel, and they’re trying to and they’re spending so much time building the funnel, the funnel is not the thing that builds trust with your audience.

Kerry: Agreed. 100%. Boy, I wish I had spoken to you years ago. You got one more question from Alex so far, and he is wondering, what platforms are interested in which platforms you’re present on with a view of business generation? Is it LinkedIn? Is it Instagram? Is it YouTube? Maybe it’s a combination of a couple of them? Well,

Sheryl: I mean, it depends on which context we’re speaking, because there was like the, you know, before COVID, and the after COVID. So yeah, I have quite a following on YouTube, I think 18.7 1000 followers on YouTube, but most of that was through the context of video marketing. And most of that was before COVID, or during COVID. In 2020, I did a little experiment on myself, where I produced a video every week, and I think I gained 15,000 subscribers in that calendar year. But that was at the beginning of COVID. And then I was at the same time doing podcasting. And I was getting more results with podcasting because of the strategy that I’ve just described. 

And so I decided to go down that path. But I still do have a YouTube channel, I will likely contribute more podcasting videos to it in time, but not at this moment. Because I’m more focused on other things. 

Am I on Instagram? Yes, I am. I don’t use social media as extensively as I did before. I’m on Facebook, I’m on Instagram. But I would say LinkedIn is probably the predominant platform that I’m most concentrated on, because of the nature of the work that I’m doing with ICONMAKER joint venture, and finding people’s tends to be. We find our people on LinkedIn, we do find our people also on Facebook.

Kerry: Sure. That makes sense. All right. We have a question now from April. And her question is what type of podcast business planning format do you recommend? And is it different than a regular business plan?

Sheryl: A podcast business plan format. I’m not sure I know what you mean, April. But I would just speak to the idea that that’s really the strategy of how you’re going to leverage your podcast for business. So I like to look at it through the three P’s of patrons, partners and platforms, and leveraging it for that as opposed to focusing only on I gotta get downloads, I gotta get the audience it’s going in and thinking that you’re going to monetize your podcast through advertisements or sponsorships. 

Both of those things can be true, you can have sponsors, and you can have people advertising, but as Kerry and I know all too well from the BOD broadcasting industry, the whole idea is that people advertise on those channels to get their message in front of people. You have to have an audience to do that.  

Advertisers are not interested in paying you money to be on their show, or to be on your show. If you can’t prove that there’s an audience who’s going to be consuming that content. Right. And so I think often people are confused and maybe disappointed when they find out what those advertisers are actually willing to pay. It’s not a lot.

Kerry: 32 cents every month $25

Sheryl:per CPM 

Kerry: Don’t spend it all in one place. Yeah, if you’re a long, long

Sheryl: Way from seven figures, if you think that you’re going to use your podcast, through advertising to get there, you know, most advertisers willing to pay, let’s say, $25, for every 1000 downloads that you get for 20, let’s say 32nd spot, or 15, if it’s 15, or 22nd. Spot. And so, you know, most podcasts don’t get those kinds of downloads, in fact, less than half, half of podcasts get less than 30 downloads per episode.

Kerry: You know what, I have a follow up question to that. And it’s not directly related to what April says, and then we have one more question. And we’ll let the audience know where they can learn more about you. My question is, if you are, you know, you have a podcast and you enjoy doing it, you are using it to create relationships, but you would like to get more eyeballs on it. 

So you’re considering putting some dollars behind, you know, paid ads for it or driving eyeballs to the platform? Is there a particular place that you would suggest putting that money? You know, I’ve heard of Pinterest, in some cases? I’ve also certainly heard of LinkedIn and what would you suggest? Or is that something that most of us should avoid?

Sheryl: I would say probably most people should avoid that. But if you were to do that, it is really a case of looking at that. And understanding. First of all, you have to understand advertising, and how to monitor the metrics of that. And I’m not an advertising specialist, but enough to know that you’d have to look at your cost of acquisition of a listener and then counter that with how many people are we converting from our podcast into our? How is this Monat? Like, how does this money exchange make sense? 

Sure, you know, the last thing you want to do is to be spending, you know, $5,000 a month on ads to your podcast, and sure you’re, you know, you’re gonna get people who are listening, but are they subscribing or following? And is that leading to anything substantial from a business perspective? On the back end? I think that would be for most people probably not advisable. 

And so I guess I wouldn’t. What I would say, though, is, instead of thinking about advertising, what I’d rather have people do is think about how could I promote my podcast through people I know, right, through my network, through my strategic alliances through my referral partners, how do I get the word out, maybe through other means than having to pay for that traffic? I’m not against advertising. I’m not against it. But I think you just want to go in with your eyes open and be working with someone who truly understands advertising and how to monitor those metrics and make it all make sense. 

That’s a very slippery slope. Let me just briefly Kerry, we have two people in our program right now. One person I think spent $120,000 on ads with zero return, and another person spent $80,000, with no return. Yeah,

Kerry: I would say that, that is something you’ve got to watch with an EagleEye. Because you can rack up the dollars spent very, very quickly with zero return. Very good advice. All right. We have another question here from Joe, you’re right, April, it does always seem to come down to lots of great relationships and communication. That’s really the fundamentals that we seem to so often forget. The question from Joey, Hi, Joe, is what draws you to your favorite podcast? Is it the moderator? Is it the topic? Is it something else entirely? What is it that draws you  Sheryl to a particular podcast,

Sheryl: It’s predominantly going to be the topic, it’s predominantly going to be the thing that I’m interested in learning about or having a new perspective on and hearing. I like people who go deep on a topic as well. I don’t like superficial discussion. I don’t like listening to podcasts where it’s like, Duh, yeah, you know, I want to be like, good. 

Let’s go deep. Yeah, tell me the details. Like, give me your perspective. I want to hear your stories. I want to hear your insight. I want to hear your wisdom on this subject and topic. I’ll give you an example. Michael Stelzner, from Social Media Examiner, and he has, you know, wonderful podcasts. And the one that I’m really interested in right now that I listened to a lot when I’m on the road is web three business. 

And so in that podcast, he goes deep. He has great guests. He goes deep on these topics about daos for example, like he’ll, you know, we’ll have a podcast about Dao and Oh, wow. And he’s going to Keep on that, what is that? Right? So it’s that kind of thing? I think for me, it’s about the topic. I do think there’s something to be said for the host of the show they need to be. I like to have people that are dynamic and who have good conversation, and their ability to source Good, good guests.

Kerry: Yeah, absolutely. I would say there are those podcasts. And we’ve all heard them where they’re saying basically the same thing we’ve heard 10 other gurus say prior and that it’s nice to fill time. But at the end of the day, is your audience walking away with anything that has the potential to change even their mindset or the way that they think about something and that ultimately is what’s going to bring people back and have repeat listeners or repeat watchers that will subscribe and will download because they’re learning something new from it every single time?

Sheryl:  Yeah, there’s something to be said Joey for relevancy that you stay relevant to what’s happening in your topic or in your industry. And using your podcast is a great way to do that.

Kerry: We have one more question. And then we’re out of time. My gosh, I love this audience though. Thank you so much for being so engaged. Right? We have a question from Mark, how would a startup company evaluate and compare the merits of pushing out content using live stream versus a post production podcast?

Sheryl: I think that comes down to your team, if you have one. Like if you don’t have if you’re someone who’s a startup company, you’re by yourself, you don’t have a team of people yet, I love the idea of of live streaming, because you are cutting down on the amount of post production that is required in order to add bells and whistles after the fact. And as a startup person, you want to be concentrating on, as I mentioned before, building relationships with people and understanding the value of your time, and not necessarily editing a video, right? 

So live streaming can be a great way and the tools are available Karis using stream yard, I use restream there are wonderful tools out there that allow you now to do this, and add some lower thirds and to add a logo and have backgrounds and have all these dynamic elements that you can switch in with the click of your mouse. 

Right, as opposed to having to have a team of people behind the scenes. And so it makes podcasting professional looking podcasting much more accessible. So I think that it’s a case of looking at yourself, your team and just understanding the value of your time.

Kerry: Yeah, and hopefully, maybe you even have an intro. Get that right. You know,

Sheryl: It’s funny, you say that my husband right now is building a podcast for fun, not as a hobby, not for business. Right. And, and we’ve been talking a little bit about obviously helping with all of that. And he has created an intro, my editor is great and an intro for it. And it looks great. But you know what, at the end of the day, as long as you are having great conversations, and you’re going deep on a topic, all those things are they’re fun to have and you make dynamic, and that’s wonderful. But people are going to be drawn to who you are and what value you’re providing to them through the conversations you’re having

Kerry: 100% They’re not coming for the bells and whistles, necessarily. They

Sheryl: Looks great. You want to have them, happy to have them. But it’s not the I don’t think it’s the be all and end all, especially if you’re strategizing it in a way of building high trust relationships.

Kerry: Absolutely,  Sheryl, this has been an amazing conversation, I want to give our audience an opportunity to learn a little bit more about you. If they’re interested in working with you. Where should they go to get that information? And is there anything that you’d like to let them know about whether it’s a workshop you may be hosting? I know that you have some lives of your own. Tell us all about that? Well,

Sheryl: We have a workshop that we help people understand how they can earn seven figures with a business podcast. And so the premise of it is to help them to really unleash their full potential, right. Most coaches and consultants are great at what they do. And they have a lot of potential, but it’s kind of being they’re still a best kept secret. And so we help them to unleash that and to scale the business, and also help them to become an icon in their industry in their niche. That’s the premise of the workshop. 

And we help them understand what are the elements that they need to have in place in order to earn seven figures with a business podcast. It’s a workshop that you can go to ICONMAKER to learn about. And if we have an upcoming workshop, you’ll see a button there and all the proceeds go to charity, that’s one of the things that we believe in is that we believe in philanthropy. And so that will go to a charity and then you’ll come to the workshop and learn all of the steps. 

And if we don’t have a workshop coming you’ll see a page there that will say, you know sign up for the next one type of thing but we do them regularly. And their deep dives, their deep dives This is not a 60 minute. This is like a three and a half hour you’re gonna want to block off the time on your calendar because we go deep on the topic and share the exact formula and exact steps to do so.  Sheryl,

Kerry: We appreciate your time for all of our listeners. The links that  Sheryl mentioned will be in the show notes. So if you’re curious checking them out, give it a whirl there and the audience is a very engaged audience. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for asking such insightful and engaging questions. We will see you back here next week. Same time, same place and  Sheryl as always, I learned something every time that we speak. It was a pleasure having you on the show.

Sheryl: Thank you, Kerry, for having me on. Really appreciate it.

Places to follow up with Sheryl:

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